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bobk
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Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 170
Location: San Diego, CA
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 Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 6:35 pm Post subject: Writing to the USHPA Board |
 #1 |
One of the great things about being a Director was that I realized that the other Directors are just regular people like myself ( well, not quite like myself  ). I've sat at the same table with each of them and I no longer have any fear of expressing myself to the Board. I wish all USHPA pilots could experience that. We'd be a much better organization for it.
I recently got an electronic letter from USHPA (apparently an attempt to "reach out" to us) with a nice discussion of National Hang Gliding and Paragliding Day. It appears to have been sent to USHPA Chapters, and here's what is says::
| Quote: |
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To: USHPA Chapters
From: US Hang Gliding & Paragliding Headquarters
Date: May 6, 2010
Subject: Events - National Hang Gliding & Paragliding Day
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Dear Chapter Official:
We are celebrating the first National Hang Gliding & Paragliding Day, Saturday, May 29, 2010 on Memorial Day weekend. We know that many of you have been celebrating for a long time in various ways on this weekend. We feel that it marks the beginning of the flying season and the opportunity to encourage positive experiences with our sports. We hope you will join us.
If you have an activity that you would like to share with the pilot community, please send it to us as soon as possible. We will use it to update the online calendars on ushpa.aero (members) and ushpa.org (non-members) as well as our Facebook page under events. And after the weekend we will be in touch again to find out if you have stories, photos, videos, or other things that you can share with the community about how National Hang Gliding and Paragliding Day went this year. Thanks for sharing this with us!
Listings should include: Title of Event, Day and Date, Time, Activities, Rating appropriate or Public (ex. H/P-1 - H/P-5), who to contact for details or chapter sponsoring the event.
For listing and providing feedback we will give you 100 free rackcards to help you get potential pilots interested. See the online magazine giveaway.
Need a poster or some ideas for activities? Want tv/news media to attend? We wrote it all out, in this customizable press release!
As inspiring volunteers in our community, we know that you work hard to promote free flight. Thank you so much for putting hundreds of hours into your launch sites, landing zones, and into our membership. It is seldom that we get the chance to thank you for all of your efforts for the sports of hang gliding and paragliding. It is your effort that keeps us going.
We are working on ways to make chapters have a better USHPA experience. Please email any chapter ideas, concerns, or questions to us by clicking here to email or call (800) 616-6888.
Don't forget to turn in photos for the 2011 Calendar project (May 31) or turn in sponsorships for calendar pages (June 11).
Sincerely,
US Hang Gliding & Paragliding Association Headquarters
info@ushpa.aero |
Well that's nice. I hope we can all get out and do something to celebrate that day. It's a good idea.
But there was one line that just kind of bugged me. They wrote: "It is seldom that we get the chance to thank you for all of your efforts for the sports of hang gliding and paragliding."
Huh? They seldom get the chance to thank me and the Hawks for all our efforts?
Let's see, the Torrey Hawks have been requesting USHPA's support to be added to the Soaring Council since 2007!!! How much work would it take for USHPA to do that? They'd probably have to write one letter of support and mail it to the 6 other clubs on the Soaring Council recommending that the Hawks be added. It would also take the USHPA representative (currently Ken Baier) to make a simple motion asking to have the Hawks added to the Council. Yet USHPA says they seldom get the chance to thank the Hawks for our hard work? 
So I wrote to Ken Baier with a copy to the USHPA Board (their email addresses are published in the magazine every month). Here's what I wrote:
| Bob Kuczewski (May 06, 2010 5:00 PM) wrote: |
Hi Ken (cc USHPA Board and others),
As President of the Hawks, I just got a very nice letter from USHPA outlining some thoughts on the National Hang Gliding & Paragliding Day. At one point the letter states:
"As inspiring volunteers in our community, we know that you work hard to promote free flight. Thank you so much for putting hundreds of hours into your launch sites, landing zones, and into our membership. It is seldom that we get the chance to thank you for all of your efforts for the sports of hang gliding and paragliding. It is your effort that keeps us going."
If USHPA is looking for a way to thank the Torrey Hawks I have a very simple and cost-effective suggestion. How about giving our Chapter the real support that we've been requesting for 3 years now? The Board voted to increase our representation on the Torrey Pines Soaring Council, and yet two months later nothing has been done. How about following through and actually doing something on that issue? A letter to the other Soaring Council clubs requesting their support would be a good start. It could be written/endorsed by Ken Baier, Paul Montville, or Lisa Tate. If USHPA wants to be viewed as supporting all of its Chapters, how about the novel approach of actually supporting all of its Chapters?
Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski
President and Founder - Torrey Hawks Hang Gliding Club
Former Regional Director - USHPA Region 3 |
Now there's certainly a bit of sarcasm in my reply, but it does ask the very legitimate question of why USHPA is not doing something very simple (and very inexpensive) to help us out.
But some members of the USHPA Board didn't see it that way, and that request unleashed the following back and forth between myself and several USHPA Board members.
The first responses were pretty much "Go away and don't bother me":
| Urs Kellenberger (May 06, 2010 7:54 PM) wrote: |
Bob, please do not send me email anymore. Contact your local RD.
Urs |
That was followed the next day by Mike Haley (May 07, 2010 9:50 AM) who sent the single word "unsubscribe" followed by his name.
That was May 7th, and I let it slide, but it bothered me that Directors were telling members not to write. I can understand that a Director doesn't have time to respond to everything, but they work for us, and I can't imagine that the email load is too heavy for them to handle (I know it wasn't when I was a Director). But I let it sit for almost a week before replying. On May 12th 2010, I fired up my email client and wrote a message to Ken Baier to keep the ball rolling (a typical bureaucratic strategy is to simply ignore you and hope you'll go away). So I wrote to Ken first:
| Bob Kuczewski (May 12, 2010 3:30 PM) wrote: |
Ken Baier (cc/bcc others),
It has been 60 days since USHPA passed a resolution to increase our sport's representation on the Torrey Pines Soaring Council. In 5 days the Soaring Council will meet for the second time since the USHPA Board's resolution. I think it is a fair question to ask what you have done to uphold the Board's decision in that past 60 days and what you plan to do to uphold the Board's decision in the next 5 days prior to the Council's meeting.
I am also again officially asking for USHPA's support (your support) to add the Torrey Hawks Hang Gliding Club to the Torrey Pines Soaring Council. I am requesting that you work with due diligence to accomplish that request by making a request of the other clubs on the Council and that you keep me informed of your progress and communications.
Thanks in advance,
Bob Kuczewski |
I then re-read the messages from Urs and Mike and decided to take a stand. So I wrote to them directly with a copy to the entire Board:
| Bob Kuczewski (May 12, 2010 5:19 PM) wrote: |
Urs and Mike (cc others),
Even if I weren't a former Director, and even if I didn't get more votes in all of my elections than many Directors ever get, and even if I weren't President of a large USHPA Chapter, and even if I were just a regular USHPA member, even then your responses would still be rude.
As long as I am a member of USHPA, I reserve the right to use the published email addresses that come in my magazine to contact any and all of the Directors who operate this corporation. You don't have to act on my requests, and you don't even have to respond to my requests. But as long as you are serving this corporation and participating in decisions that affect all members of USHPA, I expect you to remain attentive to all requests from all members. If you can cite a reference contradicting that view that then please do so.
With those thoughts in mind, I suggest that a more appropriate response to my request for support would be to ask if there's anything you could do to help our Chapter to gain the greater representation we've been requesting for nearly 3 years now. I appreciated the votes of those Directors who supported my motion in March, but it appears that the EC doesn't seem to care what the Board has passed because they didn't support it and they won't lift a finger to implement it. It's been 60 days since the Board passed that motion, and the Soaring Council has already met once and will meet again in another 5 days. I'd like to know what has been done in that 60 days to carry out the Board's vote. Or does a vote of the USHPA Board mean nothing to the USHPA EC anymore?
Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski |
So Urs writes back:
| Urs Kellenberger (May 12, 2010 5:31 PM) wrote: |
I don't mind receiving an email from any pilot from any region unless they are having a one way conversation with themselves and sending too many repetitive emails as you have. That's what is rude.
Until "your Club" has annual elections, you are not an elected president.
Please chase your windmills elsewhere. |
OK, so now he's implying that the Hawks don't have annual elections and that I'm not an elected President. For those who've been members of the Hawks for years, you know that I announce elections every year before our September annual club meeting. You'll also know that I solicit the club for candidates. Apparently Urs didn't know this. It's also kind of odd that he would even raise such a question. Where did he get the misinformation that the Hawks don't have elections? So I wrote back:
| Bob Kuczewski (May 12, 2010 5:37 PM) wrote: |
OK Urs,
Let's get to the source of your misinformation about the Hawks.
Exactly where did you hear that the Hawks do not have annual elections? Who told you that?
Bob Kuczewski |
Urs didn't reply, but shortly afterward, Mark Gaskill (our USHPA VP) jumped in to divert the discussion:
| Mark Gaskill (May 12, 2010 5:51 PM) wrote: |
Bob, Is there an annual renewal process? I've received complaints from persons in my region that once on the Hawk's rolls they are permanently on the rolls unless they (member) take steps to notify you to take them off - then they (the members from Utah who have spoken to me) are fearful of receiving the wrath of BK on-line (HG Forum) if they make that request. Is there an annual renewal process for the Hawks? If not would suggest you incorporate one to enhance the club credibility.
Mark Gaskill |
First of all, that does not address the issue of Hawks elections, and second, it implies (actually it states) that people are fearful of leaving the Hawks because they'll get some "wrath of BK" on line. Now we've had about 5 members resign in 3 years and I've never given any of them the "wrath of BK" either on line or anywhere else. I don't even divulge who's left the club unless it comes up in a specific situation (such as if a former member is advertising that they've quit the Hawks). But I recognized Mark's diversion as just that and I replied:
| Bob Kuczewski (May 12, 2010 6:07 PM) wrote: |
Mark,
I didn't ask for your input. If you've had a question about the Hawks renewal process you should have asked it at the Board meeting. For your information out of over 200 members we've had about 5 resign in 3 years. None of them were targeted for "harassment" or even publicly named. You should be ashamed to suggest that.
Urs? I am waiting to hear where you got the misinformation that the Hawks don't have annual elections. I'd like to know who told you that ... or did you just make it up?
To the rest of the Board, I am sorry for this, but this is the kind of back door back-stabbing that has hurt USHPA's credibility with many of our members. It's time we got to the bottom of who is spreading rumors and misinformation to our Board members.
Urs? I'm waiting. It's time to name some names.
Bob Kuczewski |
Now I have my suspicions of where Urs got that line about us not having elections. I know some of the other Board members have made a very similar comment. If Urs were being an honest player, he'd have said that "so and so told me that you don't have elections". But Urs didn't want to squeal on his sources so he had nothing more to say.
But Mark Gaskill wasn't done.
| Mark Gaskill (May 12, 2010 6:16 PM) wrote: |
| Bob, between you and me, is there an annual renewal. Yes or no? Simple questions. for credability sake institute one if there is not. |
I didn't answer Mark's diversion, and instead I let it sit for a couple of days to see if Urs would respond. Of course he didn't. But on May 14th, I got an email message from Dennis Pagen (uncorrected for typos):
| Dennis Pagen (May 14, 2010 7:40 AM) wrote: |
To Bob and all:
In my view all of this discussion is inappropriate for several reasons. Firstly, the USHPA has had a long-standing policy that we cannot involve ourselves in local disputes. The reasons are many, but it should be clear that the legal ramifications alone preclude our involvement. It has been inappropriate from the beginning for BK to push the USHPA to act on the Torrey Pines issue. I had pointed that out last year, but deaf ears don't hear what they don't hear. That's not to say that we can't assist with our background, experience and wisdom, but we have long ago done that. We can also state our desired outcome, but again we have done that. We cannot and should not go beyond those steps. At this point we can only monitor the situation. It is not the right or the position of the USHPA or the EC to force an outcome in this issue.
Secondly, if BK wants to induce tge EC to act in a manner he desires (which, as I have pointed out is inappropriate), he should eb discussing this with the EC (sorry guys), not the BOD as a whole. Unless, of course, he wishes to use emotional blackmail to tattle on the EC. The reason some have requested to be taken off the mailing list is not dereliction of duty but simnply an acknowledgement that we are no longer part of the solution. We all are requesting that you, Bob, narrow your mailing to your RD(s) and/or the EC.
Finally, I apologize to Dave (and all the rest) who requested to be removed form the mailing. I thought it appropriate to remind us all that WE CANNOT, AND DO NOT MAKE RULINGS ON LOCAL ISSUES. I can cite site examples in the past that have resulted in why we set this policy.
And now, I too request to be taken off the mass mailing relating to this local issue.
Dennis Pagen
Sport Aviation Publications |
Well Dennis is very well-respected in hang gliding, and I've purchased and read two of his excellent books on the subject. But he was dead wrong here because USHPA is, in fact, a member of the Torrey Pines Soaring Council. So they are clearly involved in the local matters at Torrey Pines. So I wrote back:
| Bob Kuczewski (May 14, 2010 9:53 AM) wrote: |
To Dennis and all:
USHPA is a voting member of the Torrey Pines Soaring Council.
That means that USHPA is involved in that local site at each and every meeting. USHPA can vote on every matter that comes up on that Council, just as the Soaring Society of America can, and just as the Academy of Model Aeronautics can.
Furthermore, my request for support from USHPA to add the Hawks is completely in line with your position that it should be a local matter. We have two sports (hang gliding and paragliding) currently represented by only one local club (the SDHGPA) while the single sport of RC flying has two local clubs (one for regular RC's and one for "scale model" RCs). Adding the Hawks would increase our LOCAL representation.
If you are going to take the position that USHPA should not be involved in a local Board or Council, then USHPA should give up its seat on the condition that it be filled with another local hang gliding and/or paragliding club. But to abandon USHPA's seat without replacing that position with another club would leave us with only one representative for hang gliding and paragliding (combined!!) while the RC sport has 3 representatives for their one sport (and the sailplane sport has 2 representatives for their single sport). That would be irresponsible of USHPA, and I recommend against that because that would make us even more irrelevant at such an important site to our sports.
The biggest problem that I see here is the misrepresentation that is being spread about the Council, and the apparent trust that so many Directors have in people like Brad Hall - who are misleading you. The latest claim by Urs that I am not a legitimate President of the Hawks is typical, and that's why I've asked him for the source of that rumor so I can track it down. He's been awfully silent on that request (Urs? Are you there?), and so the Board continues to be misinformed about our club and this important site.
Sorry for the length. Some things are more complicated than a one-liner.
Bob Kuczewski |
Later that same day, Mark Gaskill was still beating the Hawks expiration issue and sent the following message:
| Mark Gaskill (May 14, 2010 1:45 PM) wrote: |
Bob,
Suggest your club institute an annual renewal process - easy to write into the bylaws or just institute it. Think (know actually) there are members on your rolls - Residents in Region 4 - that no longer want to be a member of the Torrey Hawks. Membership should be allowed to laps if a member so choose to disassociate with the club. An annual renewal will certainly promote credibility to membership numbers if one chooses to publish them.
Mark Gaskill |
So Mark is still complaining that I don't require Hawks members to renew every year. I've responded to this complaint many times, but I took the time to write back to Mark one more time:
| Bob Kuczewski (May 14, 2010 3:19 PM) wrote: |
Mark and others,
It's as easy to leave the Hawks as it is to join - just ask.
Furthermore, I would assert that members of the Hawks count more (politically speaking) than members of many other clubs because membership in the Hawks is *purely voluntary* and not required to fly any sites. Let me explain what I mean...
I remember when I first met the SDHGPA President Steve Rohrbaugh at Little Black and he told me I *had* to join the SDHGPA to fly there. So I paid him my money and joined. It turned out Steve was wrong, and membership in their club is NOT required to fly at that site. So there's some number of members of the SDHGPA who DO NOT support their policies but have been FORCED to join (or to stay) in order to fly at certain sites that the SDHGPA either controls or claims to control.
The Hawks have never used that kind of tactic to gain members. Our members can come and go as they please without any loss of flying rights anywhere. They knew that when they joined us, and it's obvious that the procedure to leave is to simply ask. In three years we have had a handful of pilots leave the club. Do you know who they are? Did you find out who they are by me "blasting" them or even listing them on a public forum? No. So that's another red herring Mark, and you've further discredited yourself by using it. Furthermore we've actually had some of our members contacted by David Jebb himself when he was a Regional Director pressuring them to leave the Hawks. And yet our members have withstood even that kind of persecution - and we keep growing. :-)
Finally the USHPA ballot tells the story very well. The Hawks have about 200 members, and I got 188 votes in the last election. That's even more than the number of Hawks USHPA members in Region 3! Those were secret ballot votes sent to a third party where I would have no way of knowing how any of our members voted. How do you explain that Mark? You're looking for reasons to discredit us. Why aren't you looking for reasons to support us? That's the real question for you Mark and for the USHPA EC as well. Imagine how different these past three years would have been if the USHPA EC had simply backed us instead of fighting us. It's not too late to change course, but that takes character. It takes character to stand up against your peers (like Lisa Tate and Brad Hall). It takes character to admit you might have been wrong. Fortunately that character was on display by just over 50% of the Board in March, and I thank them. But that's not how the EC voted, and now the EC is disrespecting and overruling the will of the Board by not supporting what the Board approved. Shame on you Mark.
Bob Kuczewski |
I guess that was too much for Mark because he wrote back with this:
| Mark Gaskill (May 14, 2010 3:43 PM) wrote: |
Bob,
I have blocked your email in my filters. Personally, I have no interest in interacting with persons apparently incapable of reasonable interactions. I assume your RDs will keep me informed of relevant issues passed to them from you so I will not be derelict in my responsibilities as a BOD member.
Others, if you CC Bob in a message to me I will not receive it.
Mark Gaskill |
Now the really funny thing about this is that Mark Gaskill claims to run a business advising people on conflict resolution. In fact he gave a big long talk at USHPA where he went on and on about how to handle conflicts inside organizations. Yet his only response to my argument was to block me. So I couldn't help but write back to Mark and the Board:
| Bob Kuczewski (May 14, 2010 3:56 PM) wrote: |
So there you have the great negotiator Mark Gaskill who was going to teach us all about conflict resolution. Ha ha!!
It was fine for him to reply to me, but when I answered every one of his points he blocked me. Is this the USHPA of the future? Who's next to put their head in the sand and say "Na na na naa naaa, I caaan't hear you!" ? Pathetic. |
And that's where it is today.
This is the kind of garbage that I've been putting up with from some members of the Board for over a year. When I was a Director, I felt less inclined to post this kind of stuff because I was one of their peers and I just dealt with it. But now that I'm just a member again, I think it's helpful to show everyone what kind of "customer service" our club is getting from USHPA.
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wild_high_mark
3 thumbs up
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 99
Location: Lakeview
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 3:10 am Post subject: Re: Writing to the USHPA Board |
#2 |
| bobk wrote: |
Mark Gaskill claims to run a business advising people on conflict resolution.
...............
Yet his only response to my argument was to block me. |
I've run into this before, maybe I can help.
I grew up in a large family (6 kids) and when I tried to press the issue, I would have two or three people sit on me till I came around to their thinking. I learned to "cooperate".
While growing up, I did chance across other kids that did NOT "cooperate" and when pressed too hard they would "take their ball and go home".
This is the only child syndrome. Mark G. is obviously an only child. The only way you can now "win" is to agree that he is "correct" and let him be the "captain" for a while (he took his hang glider and went home).
That would explain this electronic hang gliding game that I found at the USHpA store.
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 170
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:56 am Post subject: Felipe's Response |
#3 |
Here's the latest:
When I post something about people, I generally think it's proper to let them know about the posting. So I wrote to the Board about my posting of this discussion on hanggliding.org:
| Bob Kuczewski (May 14, 2010 10:55 PM) wrote: |
Hello Former Fellow Board Members,
I just wanted to pass along a link to a report of my recent "USHPA Customer Service Experience" with the Board:
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17179
For some reason, it never dawned on me to think of the Hawks interaction with USHPA as a "Customer Service" issue, but when I look at it that way, maybe the BBB is the next place for me to turn for support of the Hawks.
Bob Kuczewski |
I checked my email this morning, and here's what I got back from one of our Board members:
| Luis Felipe Amunategui (May 15, 2010 6:55 AM) wrote: |
Mr robert Kuczewski,
You are hereby notified that any further communication from you is undesirable and needs to cease and desist immediately. Do not reply to this message. Further communication on your part to this address will be deemed ad harassment and dealt with as such.
Sincerely,
Felipe Amunategui |
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Windlord
Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Posts: 17
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:20 am Post subject: |
#4 |
| Who the heck is Felipe Amunategui?
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 170
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:23 am Post subject: |
#5 |
| Windlord wrote: |
| Who the heck is Felipe Amunategui? |
He's a USHPA Regional Director from Region 9.
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FreeUSHGA
3 thumbs up
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 243
Location: Kansas City
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:37 pm Post subject: |
#6 |
| Windlord wrote: |
| Who the heck is Felipe Amunategui? |
Evidently he's someone that doesn't mind sacrificing their own personal integrity in service to the borg. Dishonest 'strategy' like that is standard fare in the corporatized world and I'm sure that Amunategui is dearly appreciated and maybe even coached by the for profit borg lawyer.
They really want Bob to shut the hell up about accountability and fairness..
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 170
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:59 am Post subject: |
#7 |
| FreeUSHGA wrote: |
| They really want Bob to shut the hell up about accountability and fairness.. |
Truer words were never spoken.
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FreeUSHGA
3 thumbs up
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 243
Location: Kansas City
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:48 pm Post subject: |
#8 |
So Bob.. have you been further 'dealt' with by Felipe Amunategui?
The claim of harrasment looks more like a case of false witness by Filipe. Dishonest and kind of cowardly at the same time, imo.. This guy is a doctor of some kind?
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 170
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:31 pm Post subject: |
#9 |
Actually, I haven't challenged him on it yet. I've written to the Board leaving him out.
One of the things that I struggle with is that the USHPA Board is always laying minefields to cover their tracks. For example, when I wrote to the Soaring Council asking for information about their existing clubs and history, the USHPA EC (Lisa Tate, Rich Hass, Mark Forbes, and Riss Estes) sent out the infamous "gag order" to shut me up. So that got me diverted to establishing that I had a right to ask those questions of the Soaring Council. That new battle was between myself and the EC and they diverted me again by denying me the ability to even attend EC meetings. So I went after that one. Then they used that as a basis for recalling me.
So Filipe's threats are just another distraction for me to chase, and I'm not falling for it. If he's so closed minded and "sensitive" that he will threaten USHPA members rather than read what they have to say, then that tells us more about him. So instead of chasing that diversion, I've been speaking at the San Diego City Council meetings, San Diego Park and Recreation Board meetings, Soaring Council meetings, and the Torrey Pines City Park Advisory Board meetings. And those four meetings were just this past week!!! One of the great things about NOT being a Regional Director for USHPA is that I can now say what I want without fear of USHPA sending me any more nasty-grams or threatening me for not being a loyal board member.
The really great thing about all of this is that our members are really getting to see the kinds of people running USHPA and the games they play. This past Board meeting both Dave Wills and Lisa Tate flat out refused to allow the discussion of the Accountability Amendment. It's shameful that no one on the Board challenged such a breach of proper procedure, but that shows how bad USHPA has gotten. The abuse of power starts right at the top.
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 170
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:07 pm Post subject: Night and Day |
#10 |
When I was trying to work with the SDHGPA, all I got was negative feedback from their leadership. Everything was an uphill battle.
Then I started the Torrey Hawks and everything was so positive. It was like night and day.
When I was trying to work with USHPA, all I got was negative feedback from their leadership. Everything was an uphill battle.
But now that the HGAA is starting, it's like a breath of fresh air.
Thanks to everyone who's working toward this new club!!!
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FreeUSHGA
3 thumbs up
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 243
Location: Kansas City
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| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Night and Day |
#11 |
| bobk wrote: |
When I was trying to work with USHPA, all I got was negative feedback from their leadership. Everything was an uphill battle.
But now that the HGAA is starting, it's like a breath of fresh air.
Thanks to everyone who's working toward this new club!!! |
Would like to help but there is the problem that two founding members have me on a censored list and one more has me on a personal censored/no-fly list..
Some know that I have wanted to help instructors help students in the recent past. Resistance came from various directions and there never was much of an understanding of what I was advocating. Time and circumstances change.
The country is collapsing before our very eyes. I take no pleasure is saying I told you so.
I applaud and admire what you are trying to do, Bob. Put me on the list as a supporter for all that means. I can give you some 'out of the box' insight behind the scenes and you can take it or leave it as you see fit.
One thing I will say here is that if I were you, I wouldn't take a month's leave from your consulting job to do this. The country is on the verge of an engineered economic collapse and everyone should prepare as best they can for that inevitability. A new organization isn't going to mean much as that happens.. If a new organization emerges it should come from the efforts of the group instead of so much of one man's efforts.
Just my 2 cents..
Warren
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 170
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Night and Day |
#12 |
| FreeUSHGA wrote: |
| Would like to help but there is the problem that two founding members have me on a censored list and one more has me on a personal censored/no-fly list. |
This censorship is getting out of control. It's like they're in the third grade and don't have the logical and/or verbal skills to actually debate, so all they can say is "go away". But I guess I'm preaching to the choir on this one!!
| FreeUSHGA wrote: |
| One thing I will say here is that if I were you, I wouldn't take a month's leave from your consulting job to do this. |
Unfortunately, I didn't heed your advice and I took off from around June 4th through mid July. 
By the way, here's my phone number in case you don't have it: 858-204-7499. I am having less and less faith in public forums these days, and there's nothing like a real conversation to help people come to an understanding (rather than a misunderstanding). Call any time.
Thanks again for all your comments and advice.
Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA (hgaa.org) and the US Hawks (ushawks.org) |
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FreeUSHGA
3 thumbs up
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 243
Location: Kansas City
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| Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Night and Day |
#13 |
| bobk wrote: |
Unfortunately, I didn't heed your advice and I took off from around June 4th through mid July.
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I've been right about a lot of things that people won't listen to.
A lot of people used to call me a conspiracy nut. Many now know I am right but won't admit it.
Too bad you didn't take my advice. I held off also giving you more advice that also applies to all of us. ' Your strengths can also prove to be your weakness to be exploited by your enemies' Sun Tsu, I believe.. Your strengths are certainly being attacked and it reveals more about the attacker that it does about you Bob. It is harming them more.
Anyway you've invested a lot to get something good off the ground. Your strength is your focus and tenacity that has been and is now being expoloited.
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FreeUSHGA
3 thumbs up
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 243
Location: Kansas City
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| Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:28 am Post subject: Leader Knumbnuts |
#14 |
For the record:
http://www.hangglidingassociationofamerica.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=132
Re: Status of Scott and Bob
by knumbknuts » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:55 pm
All right, a vote is coming on both Scott and Bob, as soon as I find out from SG how he wants me to format it.
Scott's is a pretty simple case. He seems to have left.
Bob's is more complex and a sad one for me, personally. I defended Bob in the recall campaign to the point that Douglas Poirier suggested a threat to my daughter. I host the Torrey Hawks website as member #8. I have always been happy to see Bob and he's been very eager to help on the Big O Loop. I have seen much of Bob's strengths and would like to see those strengths on the TT.
However, in the recall election, there were a couple of times I pleaded with Bob to drop some arguments; he was making himself look bad with incessant arguing and long posts. I firmly believe Bob would still be RD if he had just kept quiet and let me and a few others get his back. In the end, I know of many people who voted against him just because they were tired of hearing him argue. I still wish he was our RD. His replacement, Bill, has been a zero... just not there.
As far as HGAA goes, Bob has a perspective on it that I do not share. I see the HGAA as a tool to grow hang gliding in a way that is efficient and effective. It is already bigger than any one person, including Bob, SG, or me. I cannot speak for Bob, but he has expressed values that seem more focussed on speech and this being a place where he can be himself more than he could at USHPA. His actions are consistent in my mind with the concept that he would rather have an organization with a few people that does little, but he can say whatever he wants, than a large, effective organization where his "freedom of speech" is limited.
I take great exception with Bob's behavior on the TT. Others have crossed lines, as well. I have made some snarky comments I am not proud of. But, Bob is at the center of, as far as I can tell, every argument. He is by far the leader in personal insults. I have never seen him compromise, give a little, meet in the middle, or just let something go on any topic, here or in any other forum. He even started the arguing in Ryan Voight's apology thread on the .org... by the end of the thread, Ryan was no longer a TT member. I will be much more bummed about Ryan's voluntary departure than Bob's involuntary one, should that happen.
Sadly, I see no way to bring Bob back in to the fold, say our apologies, put the past behind us, and move on. At this point, it would take humility and introspection that I have seen no trace of in Bob... and it would take a lot of each. I have never seen Bob yield on a single topic, no matter how small, no matter the cost. Target fixation... he focuses on issues and does not change course even if it crashes him and those flying with him.
I suspect Bob will pin me as some form of authoritarian... maybe we should start a betting pool on which one. I don't really care. I ascribe my slight winning margin over JB to my stated willingness to get things under control with a firm hand. If that's all I do, then job well done. If other TT members take exception to how I am handling this, let me know, but I have gotten no negative feedback (and little positive feedback). Knowing that JB, a better man than I, is Vice Chair has emboldened me in dealing with Bob to get this over with quickly so we can move on. I suspect everyone is just sick of the issue... I know I am.
If the challenges pertaining to Scott and Bob are handled, I will be able to loosen waaaaaay up on the controls and we can really start spinning those trim tabs to get us flying easily
I foresee a HGAA where much work gets done and we move forward as a cohesive team toward a common goal.
Please post your thoughts on the subject here before and during the vote. You may say anything you want about me without it being construed as a personal attack in terms of the forum rules (picture Sgt. Hulka taking off his hat).knumbknuts
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:18 pm Top
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FreeUSHGA
3 thumbs up
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 243
Location: Kansas City
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| Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Leader Knumbnuts |
#15 |
John (Knumbnuts) Wright comments:
| Quote: |
He is by far the leader in personal insults. I have never seen him compromise, |
The first line isn't true.. the second line is a compliment made to appear as a negative character flaw.
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